The artwork is beautiful, the story is compelling and well written. I had some moments where people’s reactions seemed unrealistic – for example, if a sentient species (in this case, the primitive centipede people who are the focus of the study) are going extinct, you’d think there would be MORE funding and scientific impetus to study them, not less… but then again, from the perspective of, ‘let’s watch these future members of galactic society – oh wait, nevermind…’, I guess I can sort of see the logic behind some of the worries your main character has.
That said, the main thing that almost put me off this comic completely is the seeming misandry. In the future, it seems human men are either assholes or completely absent. There are no examples of positive male figures I could find, and the only man I remember seeing doing actual work – the jail guard – thought all human women were ‘sluts’. (Though he wasn’t the first to say it, and the… individual who was has who-knows-what kind of alien reproductive methods. So… the moral there is, aliens are judgemental bastards and police officers no longer get reamed for making statements in front of witnesses like that??) Perhaps men were all killed off by the virus? Almost no men are surviving childbirth? There are some photos of men, but apparently the photos are of people we’re supposed to hate too… so, yeah…
It seems like everywhere I look these days, at least in entertainment and media, my gender is despised, mocked, and belittled. Probably some selection bias there – I can think of plenty of balanced examples that don’t misrepresent either gender; I guess I could just try to stick to those, and not check out new things – but it’s still wearing. It’s getting to the point where I look around to see if it passes a male version of the bechdel test – “are the men in this book/movie/comic/TV show all grossly exaggerated assholes, incompetents, or abused stereotypes? pass/fail” – before I dive in. Honestly, if everything else about your comic weren’t so well done and compelling, I’d have taken a pass on it. The fact that I read through, then, is about as high a praise as I can manage.
Though I’m in the minority, so don’t stop bashing men just because I’m bothered by it (If that’s what’s happening here, and it’s not something you just overlooked). I mean, look at the success of ‘2 and a half men’, or the Simpsons, or… hell, just about any successful TV show these days… it’s clearly very unpopular to have men look equally as decent and competent as their distaff counterparts. I’ll just be over sitting in the corner now, if you could pass the dunce cap to me. I’ll scribble ‘SHAME’ on my own forehead, no need to bother yourself…
While it’s true that in some media formats men are portrayed as in this comic, it’s far more prevalent for there to be a lack of good female role models. Keep in mind that the original bechdel test is simply “Does this media have TWO women in it that talk about something OTHER than a man” can you see where the problem is? While yes there are stereotypes for men, media is far worse for women. You can worry about men being portrayed as assholes all you want, but that stereotype caters to the male audience. Men want that. Men look up to those stereotyped assholes. Right now women are fighting to be represented AT ALL and you’re worrying about a stereotype your own gender places there? Okay. Sure.
But…Gabe is a dudebird, and everyone loves him… And I think in the beginning Adsilla mentioned her dad and brother staying with her sister after a failed pregnancy…there was no hate there. I don’t see Misandry…Yes we have seen some jackwagons…but there’s more often just a random dude chilling out in the background or working. and again…there’s something like one human per 5 thousand other species…and the story centers on a research facility…so you’re not going to see the “average joe”
(this made me look back on the archives…and I just realized the secret lab had a gynoid like Sparky modded for combat… … …is that one linked to the hive subconcious? does Bosslady know about everything?)
first of all: there are plenty of human men tangential to the characters I’m following who are not bad people, they just aren’t important in this particular story. I don’t know if you noticed this but: this is supposed to be a story about women and how they influence other women. There are plenty of stories out there about men that you can read if you are so inclined.
second: I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that nobody has explained Feminism 101 to you. As someone who was socialized as a girl since birth, my perspective is far, far different from yours… And really, really shitty. I’ve been treated like a child because of the gender I was assigned at birth, I’ve been harassed, I’ve been belittled, I’ve been taught to be subservient, quiet and non-confrontational. You have never had those behaviors and expectations forced on you, and you can not understand what it is like.
What you are reacting to is a society that caters to you. Even those “incompetent” sitcom husbands you’re talking about are only incompetent as an excuse to pass the hard work on to their wives while simultaneously uplifting them through their sole virtue of being male. It’s a shallow and thin attempt at being “progressive” without saying or doing anything to actually challenge the gender roles and biases that hold both men and women back.
What I am reacting to is a society where women are murdered for not doing what men say, abused for not doing what men say, and regularly belittled and denied opportunities because of their gender.
Basically: your worst fear as a man is being rejected. My worst fear as a woman is being killed.
Please do some more research on this matter before coming to me with this “misandrist” nonsense.
I won’t contest that fact that as an aging white male, I don’t “get it”. I’ve definitely had to lose a lot of the prejudices that I was taught as a youngster — at least, to the point that I can. Unfortunately some of the stuff we learn as little children goes back and sits in our subconcious and refuses attempts to reason with it.
I was nearly 40 when I found out that I did a little side-step thing when a black man is walking in my direction. I was horrified. And I know that every black reader right now is going “well, duh, asshole; all white people do that.” But I was totally unaware.
I’ve also attended a one-woman play by a musician friend that is her life story. There is one moment of intense ugliness but one which cannot be elided and still have the play make any sense. At the performance I saw, her dog was in attendance, and immediately came to the stage and sat with her, reading her deep discomfort.
Having said that, I must say I don’t find the portrayal of men in this comic to be … anything other than neutral. I don’t feel that any of the characters have “empty suit” syndrome. A few are peripheral, to be sure, but that’s fine.
OK, so, having prefixed all _that_ …
You’ll have to understand that I too roll my eyes at the way males are portrayed in _some_ media: in particular, sitcoms. Now I know that sitcoms are not the greatest extension of Enlightenment ideas; this is why I avoid them. But some cultural things you can’t skip as much as you would like to. (side note: I really am considering buying a cabin in the woods, and erecting a sign No Politicians Allowed, and not having a TV.)
There are certain characitures that would not be allowed if they were any other subgroup IMVHO.
That’s not to say the scales are even. Of course they aren’t. But I am still going to look over the top of my glasses at the TV screen at those moments and roll my eyes, and go back to what I was doing.
Finally, the men I know don’t act like this. Most are fathers (I am not, I know that I never had the patience.) They take care of their families, go to work, and some work at Scouting or other volunteer activities, work with people with emotional problems, entertain people, work as massage therapists, and so on. These are the men I associate myself with. One of my life tasks is to avoid assholes. I know they outnumber us but I suppose that’s what makes it interesting.
And all of the men I’m thinking about in that list — we’re learning. We’re trying to “get it”, even if we trip over our tongues when we do so. We know the world has changed.
Maybe we don’t get it right, but there are some of us who are working on it.
Good for you. You sitting here and telling me about how nice all the guys you know are over the internet isn’t really helping with the whole “systematic sexism that I have experienced my entire life” thing, but I’m sure it makes you feel better about yourself.
This is a conversation I have attempted to have with dozens of men my entire life, and every single time I have been shouted down, belittled and abused for it. Believe me, it doesn’t need to be opened. I don’t have the time or energy to educate you and every other sad boy who thinks girls having a thing for themselves = oppression.
The bottom line is: this comic is for women. If you or anyone else have a problem with it, you’re welcome to go read one of the LITERAL THOUSANDS out there made for men.
Firstly,
my interpretation of what he said was:
‘I acknowledge that I have been prejudiced at times, but I’m trying my best to be progressive’
‘I see your portrayal of men as completely neutral’
‘I take issue with the portrayal of men in sitcoms’
So is all that you’re taking issue with, the fact that he doesn’t like the way sitcoms sometimes portray men? Or did I miss something?
His entire comment was an obvious attempt to derail the focus of the original conversation back on how hard it is for men and how “hard” some of them are trying, completely ignoring the benefits and privileges they benefit from that are already built into society. It’s a complicated topic and I won’t get into it here. But it happens all the time, and I won’t put up with it. Sorry.
I lost the comic for a while, so I didn’t check back. I use “Topwebcomics” as a bookmark-ish site, and The Last Cowboy dropped to page 3 or so; I usually don’t delve that far.
Reviewing the comments, it seems a few things get lost in translation – with all parties – which is pretty normal for conversations in any form, especially comments. One thing I did note is this: “this comic is for women.” Ok, cool. There *are* plenty of places where my viewership is welcomed despite my danglies, and I’ll just go there from now on. I’d suggest you advertise your preferences better, though; it is NOT clear that you’re creating a ‘by women, about women, for women only’ to casual perusal. It just looks unconsciously biased; which, as I’m sure since you’ve attended Feminism 101, is not a state you should aspire to regardless of the gender offended.
first panel: is she naked? @_@
These last couple pages are really beautiful. I love that sense of….impending SOMETHING that we get out of it. Very classic, but fresh, too. hooray!
My nude dreams are nowhere this interesting.
So, just caught up with the present comic.
The artwork is beautiful, the story is compelling and well written. I had some moments where people’s reactions seemed unrealistic – for example, if a sentient species (in this case, the primitive centipede people who are the focus of the study) are going extinct, you’d think there would be MORE funding and scientific impetus to study them, not less… but then again, from the perspective of, ‘let’s watch these future members of galactic society – oh wait, nevermind…’, I guess I can sort of see the logic behind some of the worries your main character has.
That said, the main thing that almost put me off this comic completely is the seeming misandry. In the future, it seems human men are either assholes or completely absent. There are no examples of positive male figures I could find, and the only man I remember seeing doing actual work – the jail guard – thought all human women were ‘sluts’. (Though he wasn’t the first to say it, and the… individual who was has who-knows-what kind of alien reproductive methods. So… the moral there is, aliens are judgemental bastards and police officers no longer get reamed for making statements in front of witnesses like that??) Perhaps men were all killed off by the virus? Almost no men are surviving childbirth? There are some photos of men, but apparently the photos are of people we’re supposed to hate too… so, yeah…
It seems like everywhere I look these days, at least in entertainment and media, my gender is despised, mocked, and belittled. Probably some selection bias there – I can think of plenty of balanced examples that don’t misrepresent either gender; I guess I could just try to stick to those, and not check out new things – but it’s still wearing. It’s getting to the point where I look around to see if it passes a male version of the bechdel test – “are the men in this book/movie/comic/TV show all grossly exaggerated assholes, incompetents, or abused stereotypes? pass/fail” – before I dive in. Honestly, if everything else about your comic weren’t so well done and compelling, I’d have taken a pass on it. The fact that I read through, then, is about as high a praise as I can manage.
Though I’m in the minority, so don’t stop bashing men just because I’m bothered by it (If that’s what’s happening here, and it’s not something you just overlooked). I mean, look at the success of ‘2 and a half men’, or the Simpsons, or… hell, just about any successful TV show these days… it’s clearly very unpopular to have men look equally as decent and competent as their distaff counterparts. I’ll just be over sitting in the corner now, if you could pass the dunce cap to me. I’ll scribble ‘SHAME’ on my own forehead, no need to bother yourself…
I don’t even know what to say to this…
While it’s true that in some media formats men are portrayed as in this comic, it’s far more prevalent for there to be a lack of good female role models. Keep in mind that the original bechdel test is simply “Does this media have TWO women in it that talk about something OTHER than a man” can you see where the problem is? While yes there are stereotypes for men, media is far worse for women. You can worry about men being portrayed as assholes all you want, but that stereotype caters to the male audience. Men want that. Men look up to those stereotyped assholes. Right now women are fighting to be represented AT ALL and you’re worrying about a stereotype your own gender places there? Okay. Sure.
But…Gabe is a dudebird, and everyone loves him… And I think in the beginning Adsilla mentioned her dad and brother staying with her sister after a failed pregnancy…there was no hate there. I don’t see Misandry…Yes we have seen some jackwagons…but there’s more often just a random dude chilling out in the background or working. and again…there’s something like one human per 5 thousand other species…and the story centers on a research facility…so you’re not going to see the “average joe”
(this made me look back on the archives…and I just realized the secret lab had a gynoid like Sparky modded for combat… … …is that one linked to the hive subconcious? does Bosslady know about everything?)
first of all: there are plenty of human men tangential to the characters I’m following who are not bad people, they just aren’t important in this particular story. I don’t know if you noticed this but: this is supposed to be a story about women and how they influence other women. There are plenty of stories out there about men that you can read if you are so inclined.
second: I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that nobody has explained Feminism 101 to you. As someone who was socialized as a girl since birth, my perspective is far, far different from yours… And really, really shitty. I’ve been treated like a child because of the gender I was assigned at birth, I’ve been harassed, I’ve been belittled, I’ve been taught to be subservient, quiet and non-confrontational. You have never had those behaviors and expectations forced on you, and you can not understand what it is like.
What you are reacting to is a society that caters to you. Even those “incompetent” sitcom husbands you’re talking about are only incompetent as an excuse to pass the hard work on to their wives while simultaneously uplifting them through their sole virtue of being male. It’s a shallow and thin attempt at being “progressive” without saying or doing anything to actually challenge the gender roles and biases that hold both men and women back.
What I am reacting to is a society where women are murdered for not doing what men say, abused for not doing what men say, and regularly belittled and denied opportunities because of their gender.
Basically: your worst fear as a man is being rejected. My worst fear as a woman is being killed.
Please do some more research on this matter before coming to me with this “misandrist” nonsense.
I won’t contest that fact that as an aging white male, I don’t “get it”. I’ve definitely had to lose a lot of the prejudices that I was taught as a youngster — at least, to the point that I can. Unfortunately some of the stuff we learn as little children goes back and sits in our subconcious and refuses attempts to reason with it.
I was nearly 40 when I found out that I did a little side-step thing when a black man is walking in my direction. I was horrified. And I know that every black reader right now is going “well, duh, asshole; all white people do that.” But I was totally unaware.
I’ve also attended a one-woman play by a musician friend that is her life story. There is one moment of intense ugliness but one which cannot be elided and still have the play make any sense. At the performance I saw, her dog was in attendance, and immediately came to the stage and sat with her, reading her deep discomfort.
Having said that, I must say I don’t find the portrayal of men in this comic to be … anything other than neutral. I don’t feel that any of the characters have “empty suit” syndrome. A few are peripheral, to be sure, but that’s fine.
OK, so, having prefixed all _that_ …
You’ll have to understand that I too roll my eyes at the way males are portrayed in _some_ media: in particular, sitcoms. Now I know that sitcoms are not the greatest extension of Enlightenment ideas; this is why I avoid them. But some cultural things you can’t skip as much as you would like to. (side note: I really am considering buying a cabin in the woods, and erecting a sign No Politicians Allowed, and not having a TV.)
There are certain characitures that would not be allowed if they were any other subgroup IMVHO.
That’s not to say the scales are even. Of course they aren’t. But I am still going to look over the top of my glasses at the TV screen at those moments and roll my eyes, and go back to what I was doing.
Finally, the men I know don’t act like this. Most are fathers (I am not, I know that I never had the patience.) They take care of their families, go to work, and some work at Scouting or other volunteer activities, work with people with emotional problems, entertain people, work as massage therapists, and so on. These are the men I associate myself with. One of my life tasks is to avoid assholes. I know they outnumber us but I suppose that’s what makes it interesting.
And all of the men I’m thinking about in that list — we’re learning. We’re trying to “get it”, even if we trip over our tongues when we do so. We know the world has changed.
Maybe we don’t get it right, but there are some of us who are working on it.
Good for you. You sitting here and telling me about how nice all the guys you know are over the internet isn’t really helping with the whole “systematic sexism that I have experienced my entire life” thing, but I’m sure it makes you feel better about yourself.
No, it actually doesn’t. It was an attempt to open a conversation.
Er, sorry, that reply should have been in the longer thread.
This is a conversation I have attempted to have with dozens of men my entire life, and every single time I have been shouted down, belittled and abused for it. Believe me, it doesn’t need to be opened. I don’t have the time or energy to educate you and every other sad boy who thinks girls having a thing for themselves = oppression.
The bottom line is: this comic is for women. If you or anyone else have a problem with it, you’re welcome to go read one of the LITERAL THOUSANDS out there made for men.
Firstly,
my interpretation of what he said was:
‘I acknowledge that I have been prejudiced at times, but I’m trying my best to be progressive’
‘I see your portrayal of men as completely neutral’
‘I take issue with the portrayal of men in sitcoms’
So is all that you’re taking issue with, the fact that he doesn’t like the way sitcoms sometimes portray men? Or did I miss something?
His entire comment was an obvious attempt to derail the focus of the original conversation back on how hard it is for men and how “hard” some of them are trying, completely ignoring the benefits and privileges they benefit from that are already built into society. It’s a complicated topic and I won’t get into it here. But it happens all the time, and I won’t put up with it. Sorry.
you…ah…you’re kinda shouting down someone who attempted to have a conversation with you… … …
I’m not, I’m making it clear that I do not want to engage in the same conversation I’ve had literally dozens of times before in my life.
The fact that this somehow even became an issue in the first place is ridiculous.
I lost the comic for a while, so I didn’t check back. I use “Topwebcomics” as a bookmark-ish site, and The Last Cowboy dropped to page 3 or so; I usually don’t delve that far.
Reviewing the comments, it seems a few things get lost in translation – with all parties – which is pretty normal for conversations in any form, especially comments. One thing I did note is this: “this comic is for women.” Ok, cool. There *are* plenty of places where my viewership is welcomed despite my danglies, and I’ll just go there from now on. I’d suggest you advertise your preferences better, though; it is NOT clear that you’re creating a ‘by women, about women, for women only’ to casual perusal. It just looks unconsciously biased; which, as I’m sure since you’ve attended Feminism 101, is not a state you should aspire to regardless of the gender offended.
Ok, bye.